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September 22, 2004

THE OUTING OF DAVID DREIER

My latest L.A. Weekly article, THE OUTING: DAVID DREIER AND HIS STRAIGHT HYPOCRISY, has only been out on the Weekly's website for a little while, but it is already causing quite a stir. I've already been interviewed live on-air by four L.A. radio stations that broadcast into Congressman Dreier's Los Angeles County district, one of the daily newspapers in his district has been in touch with me requesting information (this is a story they wouldn't touch up until now)--and, I hear, ABC News is on the story and looking for people in Dreier's district who will go on-camera and say he's gay.

I have not the slightest doubt that the outing campaign initiated by Mike Rogers' blogactive.com and supported by Raw Story's reporting is accurate in exposing Dreier. I first heard that Dreier was gay back when he first came to Congress over two decades ago and I was Washington correspondent for New York Magazine--in those days, Dreier was much more active on the gay social scene than he was later as he mounted the Republican food chain. Moreover, in the course of reporting this story, I talked to a gay Member of Congress who has observed Dreier in gay behavior and is 100% "sure," as this member told me, that Dreier is gay. And, clearly, Dreier's demagogic political homophobia justifies reporting the outing campaign targeting him.

So you can see what all this fuss is about, here's my article on Dreier as it appears in this week's L.A. Weekly:

The Outing
David Dreier and his straight hypocrisy
by Doug Ireland

The latest target of a Capitol Hill outing campaign — designed to expose closeted homosexual Republicans who oppose civil rights for gay people — is San Gabriel Valley Congressman David Dreier.

The powerful 12-term congressman — chairman of the House Rules Committee, chairman of the California Republican House delegation, co-chairman of Californians for Bush, chairman of Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger’s transition team — is in the cross hairs of Mike Rogers and his Blogactive.com Web site, whose outing campaign has already forced one GOP congressman out of politics. Representative Ed Schrock, a reactionary from Virginia, ended his re-election campaign last month after Rogers put on his Web site an audiotape of Schrock trolling for tricks on a gay chat line.

Now, Rogers — a former development director for the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force — has given Dreier the “Roy Cohn Award, in recognition of 24 years of working against gay and lesbian rights while living as a gay man yourself.” He is pummeling Dreier with almost daily revelations as a response to the GOP’s anti-gay crusade for a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriages.

Rogers’ campaign against Dreier got a major boost when it was taken up by Raw Story, the hot new liberal gadfly newsblog. Raw Story — which is edited out of Cambridge, Massachusetts, by 23-year-old John Byrne, who is also gay — last week published an interview with Dreier’s Democratic opponent in 1998 and 2000, Dr. Janice Nelson, who said she was aware during her 2000 campaign that Dreier was living with his chief of staff, Brad Smith. “Brad was like an invisible presence,” she said. “They really have the routine down slick.”

Nelson, a professor of pathology, says she came forward when she read on Raw Story that Hustler — the Larry Flynt magazine — was working on an exposé of Dreier’s secret gay life. Mark Cromer, the mag’s features editor in charge of its outing of Dreier, is a former reporter for a string of Valley newspapers in Dreier’s district, including the Inland Valley Daily Bulletin, the San Gabriel Valley Tribune and the Pasadena Star-News. Cromer said his mag’s exposé on Dreier — part of a package on sexual hypocrisy by Republican spear-carriers in the “culture wars” — will be published in November. And he accuses the papers in Dreier’s district, all of which spout a conservative, anti-gay editorial line, of having a “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy toward the congressman and his relationship with Smith. These papers are all owned by Media News Group (MNG), whose CEO, Dean Singleton, is a major contributor to Republican campaigns. Opinion pages editor Steve Scauzillo said he could not comment on the Dreier matter without the approval of MNG higher-ups.

Raw Story has provided some fascinating details about Smith. It appears that he is the highest-paid chief of staff to any House committee chair. Smith’s $156,600 salary is just $400 less than that of White House chief of staff Andy Card and Bush political commissar Karl Rove. By comparison, the chief of staff to the chair of the House Judiciary Committee makes $126,000, while the chief of staff to the chair of the House Ways and Means Committee makes just $100,696. New Jersey Democratic Governor Jim McGreevey was recently forced to resign when it was about to become public that he had put his boyfriend on the public payroll at a salary slightly less than the one which Dreier pays Smith.

Neither Dreier, Smith, nor the congressman’s press secretary would return several telephone calls and detailed voice mails seeking comment. A staff member on Monday hung up the phone when I called back.

I have always taken the view that outing a gay person should be approached with caution, and that in doing so one should strictly adhere to the Barney Frank Rule. As articulated by the openly gay Massachusetts congressman during another anti-gay GOP witch-hunt over a decade ago, when Frank threatened to out a number of gay-baiting Republican fellow congressmen, the rule insists that outing is only acceptable when a person uses their power or notoriety to hurt gay people.

Dreier clearly meets that standard, for his voting record is strewn with anti-gay positions. To cite just a few: He voted against the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA), which would have banned discrimination against gay people in hiring; voted for the gay-bashing Defense of Marriage Act; voted for banning adoption by gay and lesbian couples in the District of Columbia (3,000 miles away from Dreier’s district); voted to allow federally funded charities to discriminate against gays in employment, even where local laws prohibit such bias; and voted against the Hate Crimes Prevention Act.

Dreier is not just a political homophobe but a heartless AIDS-phobe as well, voting against the Housing Opportunities for Persons with AIDS (HOPWA) program designed to give shelter to the impoverished sick, and against funding for the federal ADAP program that furnishes the poor with the AIDS meds they need to stay alive.

Dreier can probably survive outing in his district and be re-elected, and it won’t hurt him much with Arnold and his cronies either. But Dreier’s days as a key member of the ultra-homophobic Hastert-DeLay House GOP leadership may be numbered. The telegenic Dreier has often served as the GOP leadership’s spokesman on the TV chat-show circuit. It will be interesting to see whether, the next time Dreier shows up on Crossfire or Chris Matthews’ show, he’s asked about the contradictions between his anti-gay voting record and his hitherto-secret life. #

Posted by Doug Ireland at 10:12 PM | Permalink

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Posted by: become a home inspector | Jul 20, 2006 1:14:53 AM

I adore david drier and I always have. I understand the hate. I look at people and just go up to to them and tell them that they will die of cancer in 3 years. It is fun. I enjoy my life and I don't like having to look at people who don't agree with me.

I am a huge fan of ann coulter. God, what a goddess she is! Love love and more love to all my friends.

Posted by: penelope Moore | Jun 3, 2006 4:49:10 PM

I can't believe we are still having this conversation. There may be a day when I will understand why anyone would be willing to compromise on issues of human and civil rights. There may be a day when I hear a legitimate reason, other than pure bigotry, to oppose gay marriage, employment and housing protections, gay parenthood, and the many other markers of equality which we are denied. There may be a day, but it is not this day.

In my work with gay youth, and men and women with AIDS, I see such overwhelming need for the leaders of our communities to excercise some small amount of moral courage and demand that non of us are left behind. David Drier has failed. I do not excuse him or forgive him. We will soon see him go the way of many other political has-beens who wasted their influence and their opportunity. That's what happens to cowards and to hypocrits. There is no room for tham among the great.

Posted by: Joshua Sparks | Oct 13, 2004 4:14:48 AM

Mr. Ireland you are obviously not a real credentialed reporter or you would have checked your facts and done a little research before publishing comments from the pathological Janice Nelson. Janice has attempted to win the seat David Dreier occupies at least twice officially. She did not even register on the richter scale with the residents of the district who overwhelmingly voted to return David to Congress. I suspect her loss has driven her to have a pathological hatred of David. She continues to try to generate some interest in this "gay" issue about David to cause him personal grief. We keep expecting she will go away, but she never does.

I have been personal friends with David Dreier and Brad Smith for over 25 years. I consider them my two closest friends. If they were "gay" I would know. The three of us literally spent our adult lives together. We were all in our early twenties when David first went to Congress. It is natural that we would all have a closeness based on our shared experiences from relative youth to the mature adults we are today. It is natural for David to have the utmost confidence in Brad because he was part of our lives long before David became the "national figure" he is today. Davids father, Ed Dreier, was a major influence on all of us. Now that Ed is gone our bond with one another continues to celebrate his mentoring of our characters.

I can assure you that David and Brad do not share a house in DC, California or anywhere else. I know because I regularly stay with one or the other on visits to DC or vacations. I am in regular contact with them. I know when they leave the country and when they return. I join Mr. Drier's mother in fear for their safety on a regular basis as they pursuit democracy around the world. As far as Mr. Smiths salary, it is warranted under time served and his credentials. He is regularly asked by the State Department to assist with transitions in other countries to promote democracy including a recent stint in Iraq. David graciously allows him leave for these excursion even though Brad is responsible for running both congressional offices. Both men have been offered very lucrative private employment for a lot more than 150,000 a year. It is common knowledge that David was the first choice to replace Jack Valenti for a seven figure plus salary, but his background and upbringing are committed to public service. His father believed in family, honor and country. Ed Dreier worked hard to ensure his son had the means to work on behalf of this country and inspired him to serve as tirelessly as he has for the past 20 years.

These countless attacks are unwarranted and spread through people like Janice Nelson who have axes to grind. We have attempted to ignore her for a number of years. We are not out there spreading comments from her colleagues that they consider her a nut and an alcoholic. I am an advocate for the mentally ill and generally have compassion for people such as Janice, but her continued fanning of the flames of nothing more than unsubstantiated rumors are testing this compassion. Need I remind everyone that both Mr. Dreier and Mr. Smith have families that are pained by these allegations.

In addition, considering their expertise in foreign affairs it is appropriate for them to make trips outside the county. They do travel together on some trips, but I know for a fact that Brad has traveled on many trips at the request of various humanitarian organizations. Yemen, Hanoi, Iraq and Romania are just a few vacation treats he has enjoyed. They did go to the Galapagos on a joint mission at the request of the Ambassador to Equador, but Bo Derek also accompanied them. I am sure if you contact Miss Derek, she too can verify that neither the Congressman or Mr. Smith are gay in any way. I can provide a 25 year history with no evidence of homosexuality. We all have many friends that are gay and are not homophobic. If Mr. Dreier were "gay" we would not try to pretend otherwise. There are many members of Congress that are gay. There would be no reason to hide this if it were so. Mr. Dreier's talent does not change whether he is gay or straight. His contribution to this country is not measured on whether he is gay or straight. He does not vote against bills benefitting homosexuals because he is a closet homosexual himself. He votes this way because this is what he stands for. He is a Republican and supports the Republican values. Need I remind you that he is "representing" a district that supports the votes he casts. A Republican district. He is very conservative fiscally and moderate socially. I have 25 years of observation to support this.

I have managed to stay under the radar and have never made public comments regarding David or Brad. I am a private citizen that works for a privately held company in California. My friendship with both men has nothing to do with politics in anyway. I have only been an observer. I live a relatively normal small town existence in spite of my celebrated friends and do not relish the idea of upsetting the quality of life I currently enjoy. I am not in anyway searching for my own 15 minutes of fame, however, I am willing to talk with any legitimate news organizations investigating these so-called "gay" allegations. Both of these men have served this country dilligently throughout their careers. This county needs leadership and both of them deserve better than this vile gossip. You need to do your homework before you print the rantings of people like Janice Nelson. It is common knowledge in the district that she is unbalanced. The "fired" reporter is also suspect in this regard. Mr. Ireland, I suggest you find sources without an axe to grind before promoting charges like these. You do your colleagues a disservice supporting people like these two. Do a real investigative report like a "real" reporter or hang it up.

I look forward to hearing from you. I will be forwarding this posting to all the news organizations that you say have expressed such a big interest in your so called investigative report. Mr. Ireland. . .you are no Matt Drudge. By the way, I predict Mr. Dreier will carry the district with over 60 percent of the vote.

Sincerely,

Denise Berube
Covina, California


Posted by: Denise | Oct 7, 2004 1:40:16 AM

I hope they out all the closet queers in high and low political office who hypocritically take the funds of their straight constituency to feather their own private love nests at the expense of stabbing the gay conmmunity in the back. That goes for democrats OR republicans.

A hypocrite is a hypocrite is a hypocrite, period. The gay community takes pride in outting such assholes because we have NOTHING to be ashamed of by simple being who we are and we sure as hell don't want or need closet cases such as these in high offices. It's high time the straight community take note of what WE do to OUR hypocrits and follow suit.

Posted by: maddalfred | Oct 6, 2004 8:02:59 PM

Though it's not nice to out someone, it's also a big mistake for any gay politician to seek votes from people who hate gays.

Dreier is an elitist. He doesn't take the average homophobe seriously. He wants their votes, but not their personal values. Nor does he wish to educate these homophobes. He just wants to perpetuate their ignorance, for his own benefit.

Have a nice life, David Dreier.

Maybe you can find a good friend in Michelle Malkin, the Asian American who argues that the Japanese American internment was necessary, and that we should consider camps for Muslims. Maybe you can hang out with Ward Connerly.

Posted by: john | Sep 30, 2004 7:55:43 PM

There may be a double standard with Dreyer if he ACTUALLY is living a gay lifestyle. Perhaps he is living a gay lifestyle but doesn't think the government needs to grant special rights to homosexuals. That is my belief and that doesn't make me a homo-phobe. A phobia is a fear. Far left extremists love to throw this word around. This is like far left extremists calling Clarence Thomas an Uncle Tom because he is against affirmative action.
I have many gay friends, sympathize with many of their issues and certainly don't fear them. But I don't think the government should or needs to grant special rights for a lifestyle. Why can't there be reasonable debate on the issues without branding someone a "hater" or "homophobe". Fritz makes some good points and then John Dorrian rages at his post. If those two posts don't sum up the level of this debate, and the ridiculousness of the far left's position, nothing does.

Posted by: Kevin | Sep 25, 2004 3:02:11 PM

Thanks for the story. I live in his District and believe that many of his supporters had no clue and either will care very much, or will have to closely examine their own prejudices. So, good work, good for you and let's see what the weak-spined area newspapers will do with it!

Posted by: Kris | Sep 24, 2004 9:51:19 PM

Thanks for the story. I live in his District and believe that many of his supporters had no clue and either will care very much, or will have to closely examine their own prejudices. So, good work, good for you and let's see what the weak-spined area newspapers will do with it!

Posted by: Kris | Sep 24, 2004 9:50:40 PM

People who live in glass houses (i.e. Dreier, Schrock and the RNC Finance Dir.) should not throw rocks.

I can't believe that some of the comments posted here actually seek to condemn outing of these Uncle Toms. Sounds like the individuals writing the comments are suffering from a cerebral-rectal-inversion-syndrome.

Posted by: Scott Long | Sep 24, 2004 5:13:01 PM

In case you are taking a survey, I don't think there is a lower form of journalism than outing. There is simply no justification for such an invasion of privacy--I just don't care if he likes your agenda or not. Who is to say that a vote on SB XYZ is pro-gay or anti-gay? To charactorize a bill in one or two words is infantile and anyone with a moment of experience in Washington knows that the dynamics are much more complicated than what you can put on a bumpersticker.

Posted by: George | Sep 24, 2004 1:09:33 AM

I get so confused about people - especially gay people - delighting in outing gay conservatives. If being gay is ok- what is the problem? After all- conservatives say why should your sex life define you as a person. It is the liberal gay that assumes you must agree with liberal gays if you are gay at all! It is the same reaction that many liberal Blacks have when they come up against a Black conservative- what is wrong with this person? He is trying to be white!! If you have to attack your "own" than why do it based on your gayness instead of ideology. Conservatives do not have to all believe in liberal ideas about what is right or wrong for society as a whole as a gay person to be gay - Ya follow??Go fight your wars a better way.

Posted by: cindy | Sep 24, 2004 12:17:32 AM

Mr Ireland et al,

Though I shouldn't be surprised by it, the lack of intellectual rigor used in your justification for outing Congressman Drier is eclipsed only by the rantings of Michael Moore.

The presumption that someone who, like myself, is gay, must strictly adhere to a political agenda erected by self-appointed professional whiners is no less bigoted than that which the KKK directs at blacks and Jews. This may come as a shock to you but it is quite possible to oppose all of the Bills Mr Drier voted against for reasons that have nothing to do with sexual orientation. Is it your position that it is impossible for a homosexual to belive in the principle of limited government? You might want to sit down for this, because many of us do.

As is typical of the left, instead of engaging the argument you attempt to demonize and destroy your opponents.

For all I know Mr Drier may be gay, I don't really care but if he is, I have no doubt that it will not affect his re-election one bit. The reason for that is, in spite of the slander and lies spread by the left, the vast majority of conservatives, like myself, aren't really concerned about a person's orientaion .

Now I understand that the concept of independant thinking may be a dificult one for a dedicated leftist like yourself to fully grasp, but I urge you to at least give it a try.

Posted by: Frank H Parriott | Sep 23, 2004 8:39:31 PM

What if Dreier isn't gay? I haven't heard any good proof one way or the other. Plenty of Representatives live with staff or share housing with members of the same sex in order to save money on housing. Brad Smith's salary isn't unusual for someone who has been working in D.C. for 20 years. Instead of comparing Smith's salary to two or three individuals, why not compare it to the median House salary?

What if I really am tolerant?

By the way, to compare the situation of homosexuals within the United States to Jews in Nazi Germany is degrading and horrific. That kind of moral equivilancy argument has no place within civilized discourse. Why don't you move to West Hollywood for six months and then tell me gays are living in ghettos.

Calling Republicans "low-lifes" is another ad hominem attack. "M for Moron" is an ad hominem attack. "Jews for Hitler" is another ad hominem attack.

Posted by: Fritz | Sep 23, 2004 5:07:12 PM

Yeah, you're really above it all, aren't you, "Fritz"? Spare me the specious lectures in moral relativism. While you're spinelessly nattering on about "raising the bar of dialogue" and wanting "honest" people to "come to intelligent conclusions on either side of the issue", Dreier is doing his level best to insure the lives of his fellow gays in the U.S. are as harsh and miserable as he can make them. Are you simple? When a closeted homosexual politician uses his position of power to legislate discrimination against the same group that *HE HIMSELF* is a part of, that's wrong. I don't think it's unfair to lable it "evil", either, not that that word crops up anywhere in Doug Ireland's article here, as you falsely claim. Hypocrite. And why is it "blackmail" to alert the public to this particular double-standard? People have a right to know about these things. Reread Ireland's remarks about what he calls the Barney Frank Rule, and you'll see there's a legitimate code of behavior that Dreier is being judged against. Nobody here is recklessly outing public figures, willy-nilly, just for the hell of it. Dreier has himself to thank for this, and given that many (if not most) of the lowlifes that make up his neandrathal voting base would probably like to burn him at the stake for what he is, I'd say he's getting off lightly.

Incidentally, your whining tone of faux-tolerance is an obviously transparent rhetorical device that a fucking 10 year old could see through. I don't know how many times in the past 20 or so years I've come up against self-appointed "sensible" types like yourself who insist that the only reasonable way to respond to the far right is to lick their boots as they're kicking our teeth down our throats. The Democratic Party, sad to say, is full of your kind. Nice try, though.

Posted by: John Dorrian | Sep 23, 2004 4:21:37 PM

I'm not sure if I somehow got grouped into the "morons" of the board for my comments, but let me clarify.

My issue was merely with Ireland's article than the issue, Dreier's homosexuality, etc. I think it does pose an interesting situation -- how far does the media have the right do delve into personal lives?

I'm not necessarily opposed to Dreier being outed -- i can see how given his voting record it's newsworthy.

I am, however, opposed to an article that merely recaps various internet blogs. Do your own reporting!!

Posted by: tailwinds | Sep 23, 2004 4:14:44 PM

I think calling us idiots and cretins is an ad hominem attack. Just FYI.

Is David Dreier attacking anyone, let along "his own kind?" I happen to think that honest people, gay or straight, can come to intelligent conclusions on either side of the issue. Calling Dreier evil for supporting a position you disagree with isn't an argument, it's an attack. I have a suggestion: let's try and raise the bar of dialogue instead of going after people on a personal level. Blackmailing Dreier to support your side isn't exactly the most pure kind of politics.

Posted by: Fritz | Sep 23, 2004 3:39:06 PM

Oops, make that *FIVE* idiots: Patrick M. {for "Moron?} added his cretinous remarks while I was posting mine.

Posted by: John Dorrian | Sep 23, 2004 2:46:21 PM

Jesus. The 4 idiots below sound like prime examples of the far-right scumbags you were referring to in your brand new comments about Hitchens, Doug. David Dreier is attacking his own kind for personal selfish political gain, which is about as low as you get. The hypocrisy(especially an example this extreme) makes this newsworthy, and Dreier is far from being the victim here. The "Jews For Hitler" types may not understand that, but the rest of us do.

Posted by: John Dorrian | Sep 23, 2004 2:42:46 PM

Does Congressman Dreier allegedly live with his chief of staff in California or in Washington D.C.? Note: many politicians share housing in Washington D.C. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but someone once used Senator Chuck Schumer as an example of a politician sharing housing with their staff in order to save money. Does Mrs. Schumer know about this?

Posted by: Fritz | Sep 23, 2004 2:33:41 PM

Doug Ireland just appeared on the Al Rantel Show (KABC-790) today, 9/23. I listened to the entire interview, and have read the LA Weekly on David Dreier article where Ireland says: "Dreier is not just a political homophobe but a heartless AIDS-phobe as well."

Ireland bombed in the interview with Rantel, telling Al that "homophobes" disagree with gay rights activists, etc.

Count me among the 5 million Californian's (a 61 percent margin) who voted INTO LAW Prop 22, the Marriage Initiative that defined marriage "as that between a man and a woman."

That's a lot of "homophobes" in Ireland's world. His type of pathetic ad-hominem argument has nothing to do with unconfirmed accusations against Dreier, nor with reason and "tolerance" so cherished by the Left.

It has to do with Ireland's warped mindset that his worldview about sexual orientation is gospel, and everyone else is a hater, a bigot, a homophobe.

Ireland was so pathetic in the on-air interview with Rantel that instead of defending his position with facts, reason and a balanced argument, he hung up the phone like a girl.

Oh, was that "offensive?"

Geez!

Posted by: Patrick M | Sep 23, 2004 2:31:37 PM

Your article provided no "news" and involved no reporting -- save leaving a detailed message on dreier's voicemail (gasp!). You simply reported what blogs have been writing about for a while and what other reporters who work for more respectable publications already knew - the man is gay.

Posted by: Tailwinds | Sep 23, 2004 2:29:32 PM

Are we REALLY supposed to care about Drier's choice? After all, the democrats have had their Barney Frank all these years.

Posted by: David | Sep 23, 2004 2:09:27 PM

Your argument justifying the outing of Congress David Dreier is a kind of fallacy (http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FallaciousArguments):

Evil Or Stupid

One of the FallaciousArguments, wherein it asserted by the speaker that:

Speaker's position is the "right", "correct", "best" position, etc.

Furthermore, the goodness of the speaker's position should be evident to anyone with half a brain.

To actively oppose that which is good makes one Evil?

Due to the manifest and obvious goodness of the speaker's position found in premise #2--anyone who believes that another position is better must be stupid.

To oppose the speaker's position therefore means that a) the opponent is opposing that which is good; or b) is too dumb to tell the difference

Therefore

Opponents of the speaker's position are either evil or stupid. [Usually unspoken follow-on: Which one are you?]

This arguments is fallacious because either of the first two premises (on which the whole argument is based) could be wrong -- either the speaker's position could be incorrect, or there could be reasonable disagreement on the question; or there could be no clear way to discern what is best. Usually, users of EvilOrStupid want to deflect attention from these deficiencies; and therefore use EvilOrStupid to put the opponent on the defensive.

EvilOrStupid is a type of AdHominem attack; as it shifts the topic of argument from the question at hand (the merits of some X) to the merits of the opponent.

One clever retort to EvilOrStupid is to note the following:

A person who is both evil and stupid will a) wish to oppose that which is good, and b) not be able to tell the difference.

Such a person will conclude that !X (where X is the speaker's position) is the best one (because he is stupid), and therefore support !!X (because he is evil).

Therefore

A person who is both EvilAndStupid? might well agree with the speaker!

Obviously, this argument is as fallacious (if not more so) than the EvilOrStupid argument above. But it's amusing nonetheless...

It's reminiscent of a scene from ThePrincessBride called the BattleOfWits.

See: FallaciousArguments, FalseDichotomy

David Dreier is gay.
David Dreier opposes gay rights/gay marriage/gay legislation X
A gay person who opposed gay legislation X must be Evil or Stupid
David Dreier is evil or stupid, thus I can out him.

However, you beg the question: Isn't it possible for honest people to oppose legislation X for a number of reasons, including logrolling, the fact that it won't do what it's supposed to do, or any other real moral reason?

Posted by: Fritz | Sep 23, 2004 1:25:57 PM

Of course, you also forgot to mention that Janice Nelson has a habit of calling up 20-year-old Congressional interns and sending them abusive faxes because they had their photograph taken with "the enemy".

http://www.phoblographer.com/2004/09/out-and-about.html

Most people would be upset with a college professor with political aspirations sending a college-age intern a vaguely-threatening note.

Posted by: Jeff | Sep 23, 2004 1:23:09 PM

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